ARGENTINA - news e commenti 19bis

certosino ha scritto:
ma insomma come cacchio si esce da questa situazione ??????


Qualcuno ha un'idea ?.


ci vuole la volontà politica per "piegare" l'Argentina a fare una proposta di ristrutturazionealmeno decente..... volontà che, al momento, manca completamente a TUTTI i livelli, sia nazionali che internazionali (ed anzi sembra quasi che chi deve garantire la legalità sia complice degli argentini).

Sto iniziando a credere di dover essere costretto ad accettare una proposta peggiorativa...... sperando sempre che gli argentini siano talmente generosi da offrircela.....
 
Iron Fizzetti ha scritto:
ci vuole la volontà politica per "piegare" l'Argentina a fare una proposta di ristrutturazionealmeno decente..... volontà che, al momento, manca completamente a TUTTI i livelli, sia nazionali che internazionali (ed anzi sembra quasi che chi deve garantire la legalità sia complice degli argentini).

Sto iniziando a credere di dover essere costretto ad accettare una proposta peggiorativa...... sperando sempre che gli argentini siano talmente generosi da offrircela.....


capisco l'esasperazione a cui ci hanno sottoposti, daltronde era prevedibile che usassero tutte le armi, ma accettare la stessa offerta o peggio......peggiorativa, sarebbe come condonare e premiare chi ti ha già derubato una prima volta, capisco che oggi è sempre più difficile credere in una giustizia che riporti le regole alla convivenza democratica, ma non intendo, almeno idealmente, rinunciarvici, anche se mi costerà l'elemosina che vorrebbero farmi i ladrones, no grazie! i ladri vanno puniti e anche se nessuno lo farà.....non avranno mai, per il poco che vale, il mio beneplacido!

devono pagare quanto possono, non quanto vogliono!

e spero ancora che ci sia un giudice a berlino!


lot
 
Iron Fizzetti ha scritto:
ci vuole la volontà politica per "piegare" l'Argentina a fare una proposta di ristrutturazionealmeno decente..... volontà che, al momento, manca completamente a TUTTI i livelli, sia nazionali che internazionali (ed anzi sembra quasi che chi deve garantire la legalità sia complice degli argentini).

Sto iniziando a credere di dover essere costretto ad accettare una proposta peggiorativa...... sperando sempre che gli argentini siano talmente generosi da offrircela.....

ci vorrà del tempo: sicuramente l'Argentina non può fare proposte molto diverse dalle precedenti per un bel pò di tempo e possibilmente sono necessari qualche bella sentenza favorevole e qualche sequestro, che renda conveniente cambiare atteggiamento.
Ricordiamoci che per quanto il FMI e gli Usa possano esercitare una loro importante influenza, le decisioni ultime spettano al loro governo, che ormai abbiamo capito da che tipo di gente è fatto.
 
Martes 3 de mayo, 12:28 PM

Rato volvio a pedir a la Argentina una "estrategia realista" para los holdouts


BUENOS AIRES, may 03 (DyN) - El director gerente del Fondo Monetario Internacional (FMI), Rodrigo Rato, insistió hoy en pedirle a la Argentina "una estrategia realista" para los acreedores que no aceptaron la oferta de canje de la deuda pública en default.

"No hay una situación nueva", indicó Rato a la prensa en París, Francia, donde participa en la reunión ministerial anual de la Organización para la Cooperación y el Desarrollo Económico (OCDE).

En declaraciones reproducidas por distintas agencias europeas, el titular del Fondo indicó que todavía no fijó un encuentro formal con el ministro de Economía, Roberto Lavagna, que también acudió a la conferencia, pero aclaró que podría reunirse con él.

"El FMI dijo que Argentina ha hecho un esfuerzo muy importante con sus acreedores, pero también que sería necesaria una estrategia realista para los flecos que quedan pendientes", remarcó Rato.

LS CC
 
Iron Fizzetti ha scritto:
gli argentini non stanno facendo niente di diverso di quanto il mondo politico ed economico INTERO permette loro di fare...... e chi permette all'Argentina di tenere un simile comportamento non è molto diverso dagli argentini stessi.....

Bravo Max...un po' di sano realismo.

Una domanda sola: ...ma il FMI dov'e'?....non doveva essere in difesa dei risparmiatori?......diceva qualcuno ben informato e con molta esperienza. :mmmm:

Non comprendo tutto questo pessimismo.....da una settimana a questa parte non e' cambiato nulla.

La proposta peggiorativa ci sara' e consistera' nell'annullare gli interessi di un anno.

Buona serata a tutti.

PS. Non bisogna sottovalutare la strategia argentina.........ma nemmeno "svendere" la giustizia dei tribunali americani. ;)
 
claudio123 ha scritto:
Bravo Max...un po' di sano realismo.

Una domanda sola: ...ma il FMI dov'e'?....non doveva essere in difesa dei risparmiatori?......diceva qualcuno ben informato e con molta esperienza. :mmmm:

Non comprendo tutto questo pessimismo.....da una settimana a questa parte non e' cambiato nulla.

La proposta peggiorativa ci sara' e consistera' nell'annullare gli interessi di un anno.

Buona serata a tutti.

PS. Non bisogna sottovalutare la strategia argentina.........ma nemmeno "svendere" la giustizia dei tribunali americani. ;)


Sai più nulla dalla germania? Sai che ne avevi parlato scorsa settimana..
 
Come mai è sceso il pessimismo?

E' cambiato il sentiment?
 
zani56 ha scritto:
Come mai è sceso il pessimismo?

E' cambiato il sentiment?

io non ho gradi cifre in gioco, ma temo che la pazienza in questo caso sia una necessità
 
http://ar.news.yahoo.com/050504/7/hggl.html

Martes 3 de mayo, 10:28 PM

Standard & Poor's señala que la Argentina no es el ganador del canje y la deuda es elevada


BUENOS AIRES, may 03 (DyN) - La agencia evaluadora de riesgo Standard & Poor's (S&P) aludió hoy a que la Argentina no es el ganador del canje de deuda y que aún después de ello, el nivel del endeudamiento del país es elevado.

David Beers y Jane Eddy directores de calificaciones de Deuda Corporativa y Soberana de S&P manifestaron sus reservas respecto de la evolución económica y trazaron un balance del proceso que se inició con la devaluación del peso y el default a fines de 2001.

"Esta fue una historia devastadora, muy costosa y la idea de que Argentina es un asesino impune es una distorsión de la realidad", dijo Beers.

El directivo expresó que a pesar del discurso oficial en el que se puntualizaba que si no tomaban lo que se proponía, se quedarían sin nada, los resultados no hubiesen cambiado si se lograba una solución negociada. "Es muy posible que, si hubiera habido una búsqueda de consenso con los acreedores, el acuerdo no hubiera sido muy diferente al actual", agregó.

Eddy descartó que otros países puedan optar por tomar el camino del default como lo hizo la Argentina. "La intensidad de la crisis en Argentina hace que no sea tan recomendable adoptar el camino del incumplimiento para solucionar un problema de la deuda", expresó.

Los analistas de S&P explicaron que la nota "B-" que asignarán a Argentina una vez que complete el canje de deuda, es la nota que la agencia también asigna a Bolivia, Paraguay y Ecuador.

Eddy puntualizó que "esa calificación está bien hundida en la zona de grado especulativo, e incluye una futura caída en el precio de las materias primas que exporta el país ya que los actuales niveles de precios de las materias primas no son sostenibles".

Para S&P en el 2005 lo más preocupante será el control del nivel de gastos porque el país debe afrontar vencimientos de su deuda y porque en octubre hay elecciones legislativas clave que harían que Kirchner enfrente presiones para elevar el gasto social.

Finalmente, ambos directivos remarcaron que un nivel de deuda del 72 por ciento del Producto Interno Bruto es aún elevado, y la resolución total de la crisis puede implicar otros pagos que impactarían la situación fiscal del país.

MAR
 
mi pare che i nodi stiano venendo al pettine..
con il rating di S&P cosi' basso. gli argentini saranno costretti a pagare interessi molto elevati. amesso che ci sia qualcuno che acquisti i bonds.
forse adesso la strada di Kirchner e Lavagna si fa' piu' ripida ed in salita.
si comincia ad insinuare che forse sarebbe stato melio trovare un accordo con i detentori di bonds.
mettiamo in conto al inflazione galoppante ed i tassi di interessi in crescita..
Kirchner & Lavagna forse non sono piu' cosi' sicuri del loro atteggiamento.
 
May 03, 2005


Argentina: Held Up


Argentina: Held Up

Javier Romo and Luis Arcentales (New York)



It has been just over two months now since Argentina reached an agreement with its creditors, and yet the status of the debt exchange remains in limbo. While most analysts expect a favourable decision as early as this week or next from the US courts, where holdouts have held up the swap, the litigious start to the post-default period should probably serve as a warning of difficulties to come. Indeed, even if the Second Circuit Court in New York rules in Argentina’s favour—the most likely outcome in our opinion—Argentina still has to deal with the IMF, which has been demanding that the authorities deal with the 24% of the holders of defaulted bonds who did not agree to participate in Argentina’s restructuring.

Given the rocky road with the IMF and with the holdouts, analysts have been looking carefully at Argentina’s financing picture for 2005. A failure to complete the debt exchange and a failure to negotiate with the IMF would represent significant hurdles for the fiscal authorities. But we conclude that even if the debt exchange is reopened and even if no agreement is reached with the IMF, Argentina should still be able to cover its financing needs this year.

While Argentina should be able to sail without major trouble through July of this year without an IMF program in place, by early August the financing gap is expected to widen significantly. In August, large Boden payments of nearly $1.8 billion come due. By year-end, the financing gap could top $2.6 billion or 1.5% of GDP based on our analysis. The government has a series of tools that should enable it to delay the day when its fiscal accounts move into the red, yet these fixes simply mask Argentina’s chief long-term challenge of creating a framework that enables the public sector to live within its means. Until this challenge – along with creating a policy framework that leads to an increase in certainty for investment – Argentina will fail to turn the current “one-off” rebound into a sustainable recovery.

Argentina’s alternatives in the event of a failed or delayed deal are limited and highly dependent on the outcome of the IMF negotiations, but there are a series of additional financing sources that the government could tap. Though authorities could change the central bank framework to access international reserves beyond the current limit and redouble the fiscal effort, neither seemed likely to us. Instead, we conclude that by using two relatively less controversial measures—namely domestic issuance and public deposits—the authorities should be able to go a long way towards covering Argentina’s financing requirements this year.

First, we assume that the authorities are likely to have sufficient capacity to roll over part of the $4.2 billion in domestic debt due this year. Our analysis includes a conservative $2 billion, broadly in line with the amount that the Treasury is currently authorized to issue. The actual figure could exceed our assumptions, depending on who holds the bonds amortizing in 2005 and assuming that the Treasury is given permission to issue more debt instruments. While the banking system may be somewhat limited after the recent rule capping public bond holdings to 40% of assets starting next year, pension funds have significant room to acquire new public bond instruments.

Second, we assume that the authorities will continue to tap some of the public sector deposits in the financial system. The government has already started using deposits to fill financing needs this year. The most recent central bank monetary conditions report showed roughly $1.3 billion in US dollar-denominated deposits as of March 2005. Moreover, the public sector’s local-currency balance was Ar$25.5 billion, which could be partly tapped if needed. Our projections assume that $2 billion is used during this year. These two steps alone—a rollover of domestic debt (which could prove costly nonetheless) and tapping a portion of the public sector deposits in the banking system should allow Argentina to cover the bulk of its financing needs in 2005 even without an IMF program.

It means funding

We do not mean to downplay the importance of an IMF program, but only are trying to show that the pressure on Argentina to reach an agreement is unlikely to come primarily from its financing needs this year. Still, an IMF program is important: reaching an agreement with the IMF would limit the authorities’ need to resort to the measures we described above. With nearly $5.5 billion in payments due through December of this year, the IMF accounts for 39% of this year’s financing needs based on our obligation-basis assumption. With regards to the IMF, we analyze three possible outcomes involving a successful restructuring, of which only one seems sustainable beyond the near term.

Without an IMF deal, Argentina could decide to stop payments to the IMF. Argentina has already restructured – or is in the process of restructuring – its obligations with both local and external creditors. The IMF is the one creditor that has continued to receive timely payments over the last couple years. With a more favorable financial outlook following a successful restructuring, it is unlikely that Argentina would choose to default on the IMF. However, in the event of a negative ruling in US courts, while we think it is unlikely, we cannot rule out that Argentina decides to take more drastic measures.

The second scenario also fails to incorporate an IMF agreement, but alternative sources of financing could cover the financing gap of just over $2.5 billion that emerges even after we built in $2 billion from public deposits and $2 billion rollovers. The most obvious choice is to increase the amount of domestic issuance. Under this scenario, the legislation capping bank holdings of public debt in their portfolios could likely be modified. Indeed, the government could go as far as proposing a revision that would allow access to international reserves. Neither move would be desirable for the long-term prospects of Argentina’s credit standing.

The most favorable outcome involves an IMF agreement that allows Argentina to rollover payments starting July 2005. The likelihood of an IMF deal increases under a successful debt exchange, but it is not a necessary prerequisite. One of the main hurdles would be including a commitment to resolve the situation of holdouts totaling nearly $20 billion. This commitment could be outlined in phases with no clear near-term resolution, thus leaving more room for Argentine authorities to satisfy this requirement.

With an IMF program in place, the financing needs would generally be covered for this year with less reliance on domestic markets or public deposits. Moreover, the otherwise uncertain financing outlook for years to come would become achievable thanks in part to the grace periods included in the restructuring offer. The difficulties arrive later when the new debt begins to push financing needs higher. By that time, Argentina will have to address the structural issues that would allow it to break from its past and achieve fiscal discipline. Indeed, despite the attempts at modifying how revenue sharing proceeds are distributed, there has been little effort to fundamentally rethink the relationship between the federal government and the provinces. Until that relationship is revamped, we fear that the structural incentives for the provincial governments to overspend and the federal government to “undertax” will continue.

Bottom line

Despite the rocky start to a post-default era for Argentina, the authorities are not likely to face financing obstacles in 2005 that threaten their ability to meet their obligations. Of course, a court-ordered reopening of the debt exchange would likely be messy and dealing with the IMF is likely to provide Argentina watchers with plenty to analyze, but at the end of the day, Argentina appears to be able to muddle through 2005 on the financing front. The real challenge is to provide a base for sustainable growth and sustainable fiscal prudence. It is not clear that there has been meaningful progress on either front. Until then, it is little surprise that investors remain focused on the minutiae of the debt restructuring program.

http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20050503-tue.html
 
Argentina ‘getting back to normal’
>By Adam Thomson in Buenos Aires
>Published: May 3 2005 20:25 | Last updated: May 3 2005 20:25
>>

Argentina is on Wednesday expected to return to the debt markets for the first time since the country’s traumatic financial collapse and record sovereign default almost 3½ years ago.

While the country has issued about $18bn of peso-denominated Boden bonds since the default to compensate domestic bondholders, this will be the first offering on the capital market.

“It is a way of getting back to normal,” Guillermo Nielsen, Argentina’s chief negotiator, told the Financial Times yesterday.

At just 1bn pesos, the new issue of Bodens is modest. But it comes at a critical moment for President Néstor Kirchner’s administration.

The government is awaiting a decision from a New York appeals court over a case involving a small group of investors who rejected Argentina’s $100bn sovereign debt restructuring offer in February, and it says it cannot complete the swap until a ruling is forthcoming.

In spite of February’s debt swap, in which 76 per cent of defaulted bonds were tendered, some in the International Monetary Fund insist Argentina has to “normalise” relationships with international capital markets.

Analysts say the decision to press ahead with the debt issue in spite of the litigation in New York is a deliberate test of the waters.

But they also say there is a practical aspect to the move: this week the government paid about $370m on a series of Boden bonds that came due, and the auction, if fully subscribed, would meet that sum almost exactly.

Wall Street analysts say most of the offer will be absorbed by local banks and pension funds, although there might be interest from foreign investors.
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Find this article at:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/07717d2e-bc08-11d9-817e-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=1.html
 
U.S. says big challenges still ahead for Argentina
Tue May 3, 2005 07:15 PM ET

By Laura MacInnis

WASHINGTON, May 3 (Reuters) - Argentina has several hurdles yet to clear as it seeks to entrench economic stability and foster growth three years after its huge debt default, a senior U.S. Treasury Department official said on Tuesday.

"Argentina faces some significant challenges in the near term," Randal Quarles, Treasury's acting undersecretary for international affairs, told a Washington conference.

"While the general macro situation has been good -- growth has been strong, inflation has been contained -- the issue for Argentina will be addressing what we think are the obstacles to sustained economic growth."

Such obstacles, Quarles said, include a need to improve the country's business environment and to encourage more banking sector competition.

"While the debt restructuring has accomplished an important step in this process, these other elements are very significant," he said.

Argentina defaulted on $81.8 billion in public debt in 2002 at the height of an economic crisis in which millions sank into poverty and the country's banking system collapsed.

In February, about 76 percent of creditors accepted an Argentine government offer to exchange nearly $103 billion in defaulted bonds and interest for new debt, a deal giving them about 30 cents for each dollar first invested.

Argentina has signaled it will not negotiate with the bondholders who rejected the swap, but has come under pressure from International Monetary Fund and creditor countries to chart a course toward reconciliation.

The IMF and Argentine authorities are in early stages of talks toward a resumption of a $13 billion accord which was suspended last year to let the country focus on restructuring its defaulted debt.

In Washington on Tuesday, Argentine Central Bank President Martin Redrado said he had discussed Argentina's monetary policy strategy with IMF officials as well as the country's Congress in order to foster confidence.

"We know we have to invest in our credibility," Redrado told the Council of the Americas conference, held at the U.S. State Department.

The central bank chief said believed the recent jump in Argentine consumer prices, which rose 4 percent in the first three months of 2005, was a temporary trend and would not raise year-end inflation forecasts.

"We clearly know that this is not a permanent factor," Redrado said, adding tax collection in the second quarter of the year would help absorb excess money supply in the economy.

Redrado said he did not anticipate seeing a monetary policy impact once Argentina issues new bonds to swap participants, a long-awaited transaction that has been delayed pending a ruling in a U.S. court case.

Still, he said foreign exchange values might be impacted if U.S.-based portfolio managers choose to trade in their new peso-denominated debt for dollars after the bonds are issued.

"I see more volatility in the foreign exchange market than in the monetary market," Redrado said.

While some analysts have raised concerns that rising U.S. interest rates could constrain Latin American output, Redrado said Argentina's growth prospects might be more closely tied to conditions in its trading partner China.

"I think we are more China-dependent than interest rate dependent," he said, noting Argentine exports to China have grown at a blistering clip in past years. "In terms of growth, the China factor is a critical element."

Though Redrado stressed at several points the independence of Argentina's central bank from the governing executive, his speech was interrupted partway through by an aide holding a mobile phone who said President Nestor Kirchner needed to speak with the central banker at once.

Redrado returned to the podium a few moments later and apologized to the audience, explaining that when Kirchner wants a piece of information, he typically wants it right away.

"Everything is all right," he added.

(Additional reporting by Doug Palmer)http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....U0ZASYCRBAEOCFEY?type=topNews&storyID=8378911
 
Argentina did not get away with murder in swap-S&P
Tue May 3, 2005 05:08 PM ET

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, May 3 (Reuters) - Standard & Poor's on Tuesday said that Argentina did not get "away with murder" in its recent debt swap, which the credit ratings agency called a traumatic ordeal that other countries are unlikely to imitate.

"This was a devastating, very costly story ... The idea that Argentina got away with murder is a distortion of the reality," said David Beers, managing director of sovereigns and international public finance at S&P.

Argentina defaulted on its public debt in 2002 at the height of an economic meltdown in which millions sank into poverty, the banking system collapsed and investors divested their money from the country.

Three years later, President Nestor Kirchner asked bondholders to accept a 70 percent loss on their investment in a debt swap offer to restructure the $102.6 billion in bad debt.

The market view that many investors were bullied into signing up for the debt swap by Kirchner's "take it or leave it" ultimatum is also off the mark, Beers said.

Despite loud opposition to Argentina's offer, especially in Italy, when the dust settled, holders of 76.15 percent of the defaulted debt had accepted the terms.

"It's very possible that had there been a more consensual style of negotiations, the actual deal might not have been dramatically different from the one the government decided to present," Beers said.

Another misconception swirling in financial markets was that other countries would be emboldened by Argentina's experience and demand similar "haircuts" -- the loss to investors on their principal -- in their own restructurings.

Jane Eddy, managing director for Latin America corporate and government ratings at S&P, noted that the Dominican Republic and Uruguay have opted to negotiate with creditors instead of taking the Argentine path.

Kirchner argued Argentina had no choice but to carry out a haircut because maintaining the capital would risk another default in the medium term.

S&P said on Feb. 2 it would upgrade Argentina to "B-" upon completion of the swap, a credit rating that is on par with Bolivia -- South America's poorest country -- Ecuador and Paraguay.

The rating reflects a future decline in high grains prices, a main factor in Argentina's export-led recovery, Eddy said.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....UDPBUECRBAELCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=8377939
 
Buongiorno!

Pessimismo e ottimismo da un post all'altro! Così vincono i ladrones!
Stiamo calmi!;)

Riformulo la domanda che ho fatto ieri: cosa ne è del sequestro attuato in germania, può avere dei riflessi per noi? (che abbiamo bond DE) Se si, quali?
Può essere utile aprire un 3d apposta?
Grazie
Love and peace:)
 
Indietro