Juventus 600% upside

[atitlan]

Atitlan, welcome to our forum. We generally write in Italian, but the other reason you didn't get much of a reply here is because the Thread most active at the moment is "Juventus: Attesa sentenza...".
I will suggest to keep two threads active from now on, one in English and one in Italian. So please continue writing on this from now on, as you have done so far.

May I ask you to start with? Where are you from, and where are you based at the moment?

Bettone, i now see you rose yesterday some questions... sorry i didn'n notice them before.

I am from Holland, live close to german border.
I an am invested in Borussia Dortmund since 2011 in Juventus since 2013 and now also in Lazio.
I created a website on the Dortmund, was ther at several matsches (was at CL thriller Dortmund Mallaga 2013)

In a german forum I have since 2011 a thread to Borussia Dortmund

14 Grunde fur ein Investment in BVB. - Forum - ARIVA.DE

 

[atitlan]

Another question for you Atitlan. Have you noticed the raise of the Lazio share value in the recent weeks?
Any idea why? Have you heard of Chinese interests to acquire Lazio?

Not Lazio specifically but I think they must have interst in Lazio and Juventus.
There is now som pressure un club bosses from listed companies and I suppose that is also the main reason why Borussia Dortmund share (it also was manipulated all the time) is now let free to rise. They now seem to push it forward.

Poor cvaluation of Lazio for me seems completely organised .. nothing less.
At least it is extreme irresponsible to club interestets as well as other shareholders.
And whilst they can't be so stupid it therefore MUST be strategy and THUS also financial crime the way Lotito is at the cost of others pursuing ownership of this great club with so much potential on the dirt cheap. He risks serious and vewry costly judicial consequences.
He could yet be sued by club, club fans (if they understood consequences) and other shareholders.

 

[bettone]

Atitlan, I have often highlighted in our Italian forum here how strange it is that Borussia Dortmund capitalization is higher than Juve. In a recent message I asked: if Bayern Munich were quoted in the Stock Market, what would be its valuation?
Now everybody agrees that Juve, for its brand and its team value, is to be compared with Bayern Munich and not with Borussia Dortmund.

To answer your second message, I would not have too much expectation of Italian company bosses to ever be prosecuted. Italy ranks alongside Nigeria for corruption.

You are from Holland. You know that FCA/Exor have moved their legal base to Holland. Would be interesting to see the implications if even Juventus were to be moved to Holland.

Exor owns 63% of Juve Shares and is therefore the majority shareholder

 

[atitlan]

Atitlan, I have often highlighted in our Italian forum here how strange it is that Borussia Dortmund capitalization is higher than Juve. In a recent message I asked: if Bayern Munich were quoted in the Stock Market, what would be its valuation?
Now everybody agrees that Juve, for its brand and its team value, is to be compared with Bayern Munich and not with Borussia Dortmund.

To answer your second message, I would not have too much expectation of Italian company bosses to ever be prosecuted. Italy ranks alongside Nigeria for corruption.

You are from Holland. You know that FCA/Exor have moved their legal base to Holland. Would be interesting to see the implications if even Juventus were to be moved to Holland

Bettone that is not really true.

You must also consider debt levels.
So valuations (such as Forbes) are also inclusive of debt levels.

If Chines pay let say 600 Million Euro for AC Milan, the pay Berlusconi actually say only 400 million, but of course implicately als takeover the 200 million of debt.

Since Juve has also net debt of almost 200 milion .. current market value of Juve (Enterprise Value) is above 500 million euro.

Borussia Dortmund however is debt free, has even cash on hand (about 50 million euro)... which means even after the strong rise of dormund share the club (at about 92 mllion share x 5,20 € minus 50 million of net cash) is still cheaper than Juventus.

If you invest in listed componies and compare them you should thus be aware of the concept Enterprise Value
Valuation multiple to Revenues or EBITDA (see my claculations on Juve) alwase over EV include automatically debt levels.

One must alway compare companies on EV/Revenues in stead of Market Cap/Revenues

Only P/E levels are calculated an market cap basis (without company debt).. which is also logical since profit levels include already finance costs.
EBITDA, EBIT and Revenues do not.

It also is to be noticed that brand value of dortmund is higher than that of Bayern Munich.
International popularity of Dortmund is tremendously on the rise.

I hope this helps and sorry for the typing errors.

 

[principedeifiori]

How much does the company to the Lazio Lotito, the 2015-2016 budget of Data

Quanto costano le societa di Lotito alla Lazio, i dati del bilancio 2015-2016 | Calcio e Finanza

 

[bettone]

New contract Chelsea Nike gives Chelsea 66 million euro a year. If you think that ManU takes 83 million euros form adidas and barca 130 millins from Nike, the 23 millions Adidas gives to Juve seem ridiculous. By the way, the money Jeep gives Juve, about 20 millions a year, as their main sponsor is also ridiculous in my opinion.

Chelsea confirm huge PS60m-a-year deal with Nike until 2032

 

[atitlan]

thats's interesting .. thank you

 

[atitlan]

ic ompletely agree there is so much more potential for sponsorship

for me it is therrforr completely ununderstandable that Roma clubs even haven't shirtsponsoring

i see this on the short term down sizing of revenue potential as part of ugly takeover tactics by the club owners

 

[atitlan]

i improved the story on Lazio Roma and comparison with Juventus and AS Roma valuatons

Lazio Roma - unprecedented valuation at stock exchange

 

[bettone]

Interesting and well written report Ati, congratulation

 

[bettone]

Interesting news. Ati, how have reacted the Borussia shares to the news of the Champions League reforms and the possible European Super League breakaway?

Talks over ‘Atlantic league’ confirmed by FC Copenhagen director | Football | The Guardian

 

[green31]

a lesch chi el me vee de riit al servis na mazza stu rop chi screu en ingles

 

[atitlan]

Interesting and well written report Ati, congratulation

Thank you Bettone,

Sometimes there are problems with my site .. is has been hacked some years ago and i don't use it much anymore.
I put updated Juventus comparison (Q4 numbers included) against Manchester United here

Juventus and Peergroup leader Manchester United compared


Story of Lazio Roma against Italian peers here also as a PDF-document.
I have no problems with distribution of document and/or link.

http://www.iex.nl/Forum/Upload/2016/9641532.pdf

 

[bettone]

Atitlan,

we have opened a new discussion thread, as you can see in the list of related threads below:

Juventus Finance News Forum = 尤文圖斯財經訊論壇

Our hope and intention is to use it for English speaking people. The title is intended to facilitate the search for english and chinese people interested in the topic. You know how important Chinese investors are in football these days. So you are also invited to write there from now on. Maybe some of your links and graphics, would be a very good start if moved there.
I, on my part, will try to write there all the important information that will arise from the other Italian threads.
So, the current thread will be used less and less, maybe will be used in Italian later.

Thanks.

See you in:


Juventus Finance News Forum = 尤文圖斯財經訊論壇

 

[atitlan]

Hi Bettone,

Thanks a lot ..

That is a great initaitive. .. I also believe that can be very helpful

Of course I will join.

 

[atitlan]

Juventus going strong

according to tables

Soccer shares

 

[lukbper]

apertura stile FERRARI......

 

[lukbper]

Un milione di pezzi in 5 minuti

 

[rosboenritao]

oltre 0,7 che ,ale che mi fà essere uscito a 0,48 che somaro che sono stato x 2 lire ma tienile

 

[Galbraith]

vendi e pentiti...anch'io uscito a 0,45 con 2.500€ di gain...